Abingdon-on-Thames Town Council met at the Magistrates Court this evening.
The meeting began with prayers by the Mayor’s chaplain, Deacon Selina Nisbett.
Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) Transparency
During public questions, Hester Hands asked the council about transparency in spending CIL money (a charge that local authorities can set on new development in order to raise funds to help fund the new services needed by the new homes). The council responded that they would be more transparent in the future and would publish a breakdown of CIL spending each year.
New Councillor Co-opted
The meeting began with the co-option of a new councillor for the Dunmore Ward vacancy. Three candidates stood for the position: Charlie Birks (independent), Mark Gibbons (Liberal Democrat), and Aiden Riley (Green). After two rounds of secret voting, Mark Gibbons was co-opted as the new councillor.
Abbey Cinema Lease Renewed
The council announced that a two-year lease has been signed with the Abbey Cinema. The cinema will continue to operate until the end of August 2025, at which point the building will be closed for a major refurbishment.
New Science Centre Proposed
James White of ATOM suggested the development of a new Science Centre in Abingdon. The council expressed its support for the project and will nominate a councillor to join the project team.
Grants Approved
The council approved larger grants to a number of local organizations, including the Abingdon Carousel, The Abingdon Bridge, Be Free Young Carers, Christ’s Hospital, Citizens’ Advice Oxfordshire South and Vale, and the Abingdon Damascus Youth Project. The grant to Christ’s Hospital is a long standing agreement to help fund a small percent of the cost of running the Albert Park.
Other Topics Discussed
Councillor Jim Halliday congratulated all those behind the Abingdon Active Travel Map https://www.abingdon.gov.uk/shop-eat-drink/active-travel-map-of-abingdon-on-thames.
The council is planning to install new play equipment at Caldecott Road recreation ground, in South Abingdon. This will be funded by CIL Money from the North Abingdon developments.
The council will point the town’s finger posts in the right direction and then refurbish them.
The council discussed the introduction of 20 MPH speed indicators in the town. They will probably put speed indicators near town entry points and other important locations, once they have been identified.
The council has decided to revert to having a full planning committee instead of a planning panel. This will involve more staff time and expertise so cannot be done immediatly.
The council will procure flags for the Holocaust Memorial, the LGBTQIA++ flag, and the Universal Suffrage Flag. The Mayor suggested that the reason why a particular flag is flying be put on a town noticeboard. There is a flag currently flying for the Mayor’s Birthday.
The council has appointed an interim town clerk for the next six months, after the previous interim town clerk stepped down. The intention is then to find a permanent town clerk.
If there were three candidates for the Dunmore Ward Councillor vacancy from three different parties
why was there not a by- election when the people of Dunmore Ward could vote?
Hi Monica,
Legally a by election can only be called when 10 electors from that ward request one. This has usually been what happens but on this occasion there weren’t enough requests from residents (something I’ve been told hasn’t happened in over 40 years)
When the threshold isn’t met, a co-option happens like this. It does mean there’s no vote but it also means the council does not have to spend money on running a vote, which can be several thousand pounds even in small elections. It’s a relatively rare process but I hope this helps explain how it comes to happen
Kind regards
Tom
I agree with flying the flag at half mast on the death of a mayor but the birthday thing sounds nuts. I don’t remember that being the practice when I was on the council but it’s entirely possible I just didn’t notice.
And the Council (stuffed full of LIberals) elected – wait for it – a Liberal.
Dunmore Ward residents did cast 73% of their votes for the Lib Dems in May, so this cooption simply follows their wishes.
Mayor’s birthday – seriously?
Good news that (some) certainly on the cinema – well done to those involved for getting this sorted at least for the time being.
Certainty – apologies typo
Hi Iain, this is a tradition for the town and has been for a long time. There are also flag protocols for the death of ex mayors as well, it’s one of the ways the town council stay true to the actions of those who have served the town before us
As you say, Iain, it’s great to know that the cinema will be here for another 22 months but I fear that this Council will take forever to refurbish the building and I think Abingdon’s wonderful entertainment facility will be lost forever. I believe the proprietors had been prepared to undertake a lot of refurbishment but the Council decided that they know best. I hope I’m proved wrong, but I think all the cinema fans should make the most of it now before it becomes a fond memory.
The proprietors had been willing to spend a lot of the council’s money on refurbishment.
Ourintention is to use the 22 months we have now to do the planning/tendering etc. for the refurbishment so that it is ready to roll as soon as the cinema closes.
One of the main drivers for this is that the building is currently very energy inefficient, so bad that the council would not actually be allowed to lease it our in a few years time. But there are also other factors like the state of the existing roof etc.
Can you confirm that it is definitely the Council’s intention to allow the cinema to re-open, and how long do you anticipate the refurbishment will take?
The cinema has been very quick to criticise the council but disappointingly, now a lease has been concluded they seem to have nothing to say…
Before anyone says so: i am not a councillor or a Lib Dem member, and I am not related to either. From what I have read the council have had some very unjustified criticism regarding this matter. People should remember that the council, elected by us, is here for all Abingdon residents and many do not patronise and/or cannot afford to go to the cinema. It seems to me that this whole business has been an unwelcome distraction to the council who should and wish, from the leaflets I read during the local elections, Work to improve life for our residents during this cost of living crisis. I have been to the cinema, it is a good project but it is a somewhat middle-class niche facility; let’s deliver for a wider audience!
It was good to see several member of the public observing this meeting – not just the “usual suspects” (such as me and Backstreeter!)
Reserve your seat for the next one
I never see these meetings advertised
The schedule of Town Council meetings is on their website https://www.abingdon.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/2023-4-meetings-calendar-by-committee-UPDATED-22.8.23.pdf and anyone can attend as an observer. The agendas are published on the website about 5 days before the meeting.
That’s because you have to root around online to find out anything at all about what they’re up to.
Not exactly difficult to find out about these meetings- the website looks easy enough to navigate
That’s not the point. Many older Abingdonians won’t have access to the website in the first place. The current arrangements for communication are ageist and otherwise exclusive.
Regularly publicised on social media. I appreciate this may not reach some sections of society, but what else would you suggest?
“There is not enough evidence to conclude that that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas.”
From the .gov website.
Can we get rid of them now as they:
don’t make roads safer, are
bad for the environment,
can’t be enforced, and
lead to confusion.
Research following the introduction of 20mph speed limits in London, Edinburgh and Bristol, amongst other places, has shown a reduction in the number and severity of collisions.
Given the very high numver of collisions that occur on Abingdon’s roads, I thnk we would not be fulfilling our responsibilities if we didn’t try and do something about it.
Yes ditch them all.
As has been said elsewhere already….you’d be better reducing “right hand turns” to reduce accidents as that is someth6 that is actually a cause of accidents.
Speed is not.
It is disingenuous to concatenate speed with accidents and therefore false to offer 20mph restrictions as a solution. They aren’t.
They are a vote winner though, even if they don’t make the roads safer. So….I can see the logic.
Neil Fawcett please back up these statements/claims with data from the local community.
The Facebook groups are awash with nonsense people bemoaning the death of cats in road accidents but I am many accidents of consequence.
Could you provide details (e.g. numbers, dates, comparisons, sources of data, etc.) please? I for one am not aware of “the very high number of collisions that occur on Abingdon’s roads”.
Hi Neil. Just for clarity I’m going to use CAPS to re-iterate the question you have been asked here and elsewhere. Here goes:
SHOW US THE DATA IN A CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS WAY!
what info has this decision been based on? Simply high level summaries of other councils? Assuming their reported drop in injuries were applied to Abingdon – what is the expected net change expected to look like?
There is lots of information about reported collisions that cause injury here:
http://www.crashmap.co.uk
Neil:
I did not find anything relating to Abingdon.
The Council must have made the decision based on data in front of it. Why do you not simply supply that information?
I have made further informal inquiries with Thames Valley Police roads/traffic officers. There is no suggestion that Abingdon is a hot spot.
Several posts have asked you for specific information. You have so far failed to give any. This is disappointing and – from my point of view as as Driver Training Officer for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents in the Thames Valley – it is frustrating.
You gave high accident statistics as the reason for the new 20mph limits, but you have produced no statistical evidence.
You trust thf government??
I would take what the government has to say about 20 mph zones, so-called 15 minute neighbourhoods and the imaginary “war on motorists “ with a large pinch of salt. The government should leave local traffic management to local authorities and sort out their own pressing problems for which they are responsible such as the NHS and the poor state of the economy.
As much as one may or may not like the particular bunch of people who are “in government” I think we all sensibly recognise that the .gov website is not “the actual government”. Rishi didn’t actually write the article about 20mph restrictions…
It is naive to think that anything would be published on the government website which did not reflect the policy or wishes of the ruling party. Of course the PM did not write the article but I am deeply sceptical about the whole anti-car narrative but no doubt it will be played up over the coming months as the general election approaches….
@ Neil Fawcett
What are the statistics in Abingdon for the five years prior to Covid and the two years since?
Accidents
Minor injuries
Life-changing injuries
Deaths
Vague assertions about statistics are not very helpful in trying to understand the problem. Since I am a Driver Training Officer for the Thames Valley Group of RoSPA, I hope you will realise that I am serious about this issue.
Well said! I wonder if you got a reply (can’t see one).
PPJS, absolutely fair and proper questions…
For info, you can go on to a website called “CRASHMAP” that shows the location of incidents. It does show you at a glance the severity of these incidents – on the scale of slight, serious, fatal.
However you have to pay (a nominal £5) to get any further details…I saved all my pennies and paid just that so I could get a better handle on the issues/incidents that the 20mph restrictions will reduce.
What is interesting, or even pertinent from the data available is that you can not, in anyway, ascertain what the cause of the accident was.
Actually that’s not quite true…there could be some information about direction of travel etc.
What is ABSOLUTELY true is that CRASHMAP does not, can not and will not give any data on speed, or in anyway that speed is/was a contributing factor to the incident.
This is absolutely critical to bear in mind if anyone (the council for example) were to try using CRASHMAP as a data source for justification for speed restrictions. Clearly to do so would surely be disingenuous and not give the grave issue the due diligence it should have…we all want to reduce accidents, I’m sure.
It’s also interesting to note, as I am sure you already know PPJS, that 5 people are killed on our roads each day. That is of course abhorrent. However…the ROSPA data shows that the main cause of RTAs is drunk/drink driving…not speed. I think speed may be on the list, but i don’t believe it is in the top 3….maybe not even top 5, can’t recall.
Speed will have a massive contributing factor to the severity of injury. But….if you’ve chosen to break the law by driving under the influence, I can’t think that you’d then obey the speed limit.
20mph restrictions are a fantastic headline/vote winner. But are they about safety… 🤷♂️ I know what I think…
I don’t think that the evidence exists to support the assertion that Abingdon has a high rate of road traffic incidents. I met a Thames Valley Police Advanced Driving Trainer today who was surprised by and suspicious of the claim.
Basing traffic decisions in a town of 38,000 on reports from London (over 9 million), Bristol (half a million) or Edinburgh (half a million) without taking into account a host of complicating factors which occur in major conurbations is – bluntly – questionable. I will say no more!
I would love to meet with the councillors on the traffic committee and ask them really rude questions such as how many of them have taken any driving or riding training since they took their L-plate tests.
I wait to hear from Neil Fawcett, who I am sure will need a little time to gather the statistics I asked for.
Daniel, if right-hand turns are to be banned then the ban has to be enforced. The number of westbound drivers illegally turning right from Stratton Way into Bath Street is astonishing and very dangerous if you’re crossing Bath Street going towards the bus stops, as I do regularly. The enforcement signs are far too small and easily, if not deliberately, overlooked. If there was money available, this should be made a full 3-way junction with green man crossings on both arms, but wasting money on cancelled rail projects seems to be much more important at the moment.
I wasn’t being serious right hand turns. Banning them would be totally inane. However it is in that inanity that lies a truth that they would actually be “better at reducing accidents ” than 20mph restrictions.
We don’t have the stupidity to stop right hand turns (good)..but it seems we do to have 20mph restrictions. 🤷♂️
you will need to be very lucky to get to 20mph inthe centre of abingdon,stert st,high street, west st helen st bridge st, the vineyard, ock st all the way to tescos roundabout, drayton road, caldecott etc, so no real need to waste money on signage
That’s not entirely true…18-20hrs a day there is no traffic in town what so ever, so being able to make fair/good progress is “most of the time”; or at least it was….
Agreed the traffic is awful at certain times….for an hour or two.
Re that traffic…Remember, we paid for consultants to help sort this. They took the money but they didn’t sort it. But hey, it wasn’t money that belonged to anyone… 🤷♂️
living in the towncentre the town as i do,its i clogged pretty much all the time during the day, as viwed from my living room window
Clogged, as in the exact same vehicle is stood out your window for minutes on end?
Or you mean there’s always some vehicle outside your window (because it’s a high street and vehicles use it, stop at lights etc then move) but that suggests the traffic is moving, ie not clogged?
Just trying to get the facts and details straight…
combination of both,sometimes its taken 40 mins to get from st helens church to the high st which is not the road i live in, traffic when moving is often very very slow, all the aforementioned roads are clogged
banning cars from our roads altoghether would result in a 100% fall in car accidents but we dont do that because everything involves compromise. i think 30 was a fair enough one. 20 not.
There are of course some very easy but politically unpalatable solutions to congestion.
Observation: traffic is much heavier during school term times, adding much time to morning commutes.
Caused by too many children being ferried across the town to go to schools which have the “best results.”
Solution : if your child attends a state school, they go to the one closest to them unless there is a very good reason. Then they can walk – I would not let my children cycle as roads are far too dangerous with some motorists who lack both sense and ability to follow rules. Seemed to work just a few years ago before we got hung up on dodgy statistics.
Of course this will never happen. No political party would support it and loads of parents will moan about lack of choice blah . My view is if you want choice then go private!
I don’t think that that is true; and it is that type of thinking that has got us in to such a mess in this and so many other areas of society.
Odd coincidence then that when the schools are in holiday the roads are clearer and when my own journey times to work are so much quicker. Incidentally my objection to this business of so-called parental choice in paid for state schooling is not on the grounds of traffic. It is that the current system favours the more affluent who send their children to the “better schools” leaving schools who are struggling to struggle even more.
I am also deeply skeptical of the performance indicators by which schools are judged and of Ofsted who have proved to be unfit for purpose.
On the school system you make some good observations but the comments on OFSTED and KPIs has changed quite a bit over the last few years, and whilst not perfect is a much better framework than previous relying less heavily on the pure results metrics.
On your point about state school choice, whilst I have some sympathy with this, the much larger inequality in the system is driven by private education .
I’m straight – will the council be buying a flag to represent me?
No, because there isn’t a bigot flag.
It’s not bigotry. Once you start catering specifically to one sub set of the population (a group I have no issue with) , you by default start to discriminate against the rest
Well said Ray.
The council will “probably” erect speed indicators – clearly another well thought out and prepared policy 🙄
@Neil
Neil Fawcett, please answer. You are accountable to the citizens of this town.
Approximately 430 pedestrians are killed on British roads every year, according to the most recent government figures. This is 430 too many.
But given that Abingdon’s population is 3800, it is almost impossible to derive a meaningful statistical average for our town. Given, further, that the 20mph limit is always related to pedestrian lives saved, I fail to understand how the available statistics can be used to calculate the basis of the policy.
Every week I sit in cars with people aiming to improve their driving safety. I am constantly on at them about speed limits. I am constantly on at them about pedestrians, horse riders, stray dogs, cyclists, bikers. I want to reduce road traffic incidents.
Where are the actual statistics for Abingdon? Without them your argument remains an assertion without proof. You wrote about “the very high number of collisions” in Abingdon. How many? At what speeds? With what outcomes?
At present, it is hard to believe you when Thames Valley roads police officers tell a different story.
Sorry: typo – population Abingdon is 38000 NOT 3800!