ENTRY

February’s theme for City Daily Photo is ENTRY …

Above the door of Old Abbey House is the victorian epigram: “Through this wide open gate, none come too early; none returns too late.

This building has been the offices of Abingdon Town Council for some years. But with the Town Council moving to the Guildhall, the future use of this building and its public gardens are unknown.

Will the Vale of White Horse District Council, who own the building, ensure public entry to the gardens?

24 thoughts on “ENTRY

  1. steve King

    Its haunted ! back in the 60’s my old teacher lived there, she was Mrs Nicholson and her husband Ernest, was the town clerk, just to the left of the photo is single story building that was their kitchen, she said she often saw a “man” walking by the window, it didn’t worry her, even though she realised it was a spook !!

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  2. userless

    The gardens are part of the park and their restoration was part of the Heritage Lottery grant so I would think access would remain as present. Would be a great place of cream teas.

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  3. Donna

    I never knew the Landlords of this building were the Vale district council? Dare I ask why then did the town council leave a perfectly servicable building and cross the road to its new home and in doing so take on the massive annual loss in excess of £150k ?
    Now we have the ridiculous situation of the Town council increasing its running costs (loss) by well over £150k p/a and at the same time the Vale will have yet another empty building to add to the already string of empty biuidings they have in their portfolio? Where is the logic in this silly game of Monopoly Abingdon

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  4. Iain

    Hi Donna
    I think you’ve muddled up the figures somewhere. The town council will save about £30,000 per annum by moving to roysse court.

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  5. Donna

    Iain, have I ? I’ve been trying to unravel this conundrum via the T.C web site and their 13/14 budget, I can see no mention of rent? just how much did the T.C pay the vale each year in rent? according to your figures if the T.C are going to save £30k a year by the move, a move to premisses that you have stated are running at a £150k p/a loss then a quick calculation means the T.C were paying the Vale in excess of £180k p/a rent !! come off it Iain,
    One thing I did find interesting in the T.C budget was the staggering amount of loss County hall is making, The budget expenditure is a massive £203k p/a, but the income is listed at just £44k, does that mean then Iain the c/tax payer is subcidising the County hall to the tune of £160k p/a? also, there is no mention of rent or income from the basement cafe? Iain??

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  6. Iain

    Julian – the renovation of the roysse court offices cost approx £300k

    This money comes mainly from the sales of the old old town council offices in stratton lodge which account for £250k, the balance coming from the grant that accompanied the transfer of the guildhall from the vale.

    Hope this helps clarify,

    I

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  7. Iain

    Hi Donna.

    Regarding the guildhall, there are two distinct items here.

    The town pays approx £30k in rent and rates for old abbey house to the vale all of which will be saved next year. I’m not sure off hand where it appears in the 13/14 budgets – it should appear somewhere in the overheads section. You wont find it in the 2014/5 budget as no rent will be paid on roysse court as we own that building.

    The £150k you refer to is the subsidy we pay for the operation of the guildhall which is totally separate to the town council offices. I agree with you this is very high and this is the reason we are proposing the development plans for the guildhall to bring this subsidy down.

    I’m not as close to the detail of the museum as I dont sit on that committee, but your overall analysis of the subsidy is about right. A facility like a museum is going to always need a significant subsidy if it is to remain as a facility for the town. The arrangement for buns in the basement is a profit share with the operators which will be included in the income somewhere. I dont think it brings in a very big income so it may not have its own code.

    I hope this helps

    Iain

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  8. Donna

    Thanks for the info Iain, so why did the Town Council offer to take over the Guild Hall complex knowing they were going to cop for a £150k p/a running loss, when they could have stayed where they were for only £30k p/a? That just doesn’t make any financial sense? but more worrying is the combined loss of the County Hall (£160k) and next years Guild hall loss of £150k will inevitably mean a reduction in services or a rise in council tax? Iain??

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  9. Iain

    The deal was done three years ago. The way it worked was that the district transferred the building together with its loss to the town council, plus £1.2m cash to invest in improving the building. The thinking, i think, was that the building was somewhat neglected under the vale and that moving it to the town council would ensure the building received greater focus.

    The rationale wasn’t anything to do with the council offices as far as i understand. However the building came with some empty (but in need of renovation) offices, and the vale also wanted to take back possession of old abbey house (our lease ended last year), so moving to roysse court makes sense.

    In regard to council tax the guildhall budget for next year is pretty much the same as last year’s outturn as is the museum so no real impact on council tax. There will be a small rise (2.2% which is the same as cpi) this year, but that is due to reduced funding due to central government cuts (approx £40k so far and another £80k to come over next four years). We’ve managed to absorb some of this plus the impact of inflation through efficiencies such as the office move and have not had to cut services. Note this will be the first rise since the 2011 election.

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  10. Hester

    I have only read quickly through the exchange above but think I must be missing something. Call me old-fashioned but I do quite still like the idea of public services or amenities which are provided either by government or other public bodies for the benefit of the people. These are not expected to make a profit – terms like “loss” are not appropriate – “subsidy” is a bit better but even that has connotations of being bad. What we are talking about is the cost of providing an amenity, whether it be a park, a cemetery, a museum or a community hub – or a school!

    Clearly the TC should be – and are – looking to generate income from the Guildhall to offset as much as they can of the costs but part at least of it is an invaluable part of the town’s heritage and we should treasure it, not look at it purely in financial terms. And if my memory serves me well, £150k is a lot less subsidy than the Vale were paying so they’re going in the right direction.

    And as for the Museum, this country would be a pretty dull place if all museums were expected to operate on a commercial basis. I am sure many of us like to go to museums elsewhere, so we should be prepared to support our own which is a great attraction to visitors to our town – as well as for us.

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  11. Donna

    Hello Hester, I ought to bow to your superior knowledge, clearly you have lived in Abingdon longer than my 8 years but however your terminology differs from mine a “loss” or a “subsidy” still comes off of the bottom line and will inevitably be paid for by me, a council tax payer ! A quick calculation of iains stated 2.2% rise in my council tax means an extra £50 a year out of my pocket !
    Now you might consider that money well spent, and in ordinary terms I might agree, but when the likes of Mr Southey, who for the last decade tried to get funding from the town council to build a much needed gym and community centre here in the south of the town he’s hit a brick wall. Abingdon is very much an elitist town !!

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  12. Iain

    Sorry Donna but unless you live in some sort of palace your maths is wrong.

    The average band D council tax for the town council will go up by approximately £2.50 per annum to around £108 pa. I think you are confusing the total community charge bill with what the town council charge.

    The total bill also includes police, county council and vale. The town council is much the smallest of these elements, and Abingdon is one of, if not the, smallest town council tax in the county.

    I fully agree with your principle though that we as councillors have to be careful in regard to spending public money. During the three years I’ve been a town councillor the total rise has been this years 2.2% against inflation over the same period of approximately 10% so in real terms you’re getting more for your money.

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  13. Neil Fawcett

    Thanks Iain for the explanations.

    I do agree with Hester’s main point – that it is a good thing that local councils provide amenities and services based on council tax payers contributing collectively.

    I’ve noticed over the years that whenever senior council officers have decided they want to cut a service they start describing the cost as a ‘loss’. But they never describe their own salaries in that way!

    Obviously it is important that councils deliver good value, and different people will have different views about the value of different things, but if the local councils didn’t make ‘losses’ on lots of their activities in Abingdon the town would be a lot poorer for it.

    Reply

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