At the Guildhall this evening there was the first of two public meetings to view, hear about, and give opinions on the re-development of the modern part of the Guildhall. There is another meeting on Saturday 20th April at 10.30am. The plans can also be viewed for the next week or so.
The architects took us through the proposals, which are still open to change. The total plan has a price ticket of £3.5M.
For that Abingdon will get a proper purpose built 100 seat cinema over the existing carpark at the back of the Guildhall for £1M.
The large Abbey Hall would be modified so that it could act as a Theatre / Cinema with raked (sloped) seating going up to the balcony. That seating could be withdrawn for the room to become a wedding / function / sport venue. That will cost £650K with improvements to the look, and lighting etc…
Then there will be works to make things connect better and be accessible and sustainable. A new foyer will be added at the front which will connect through at ground level with the entrance from Bridge Street. Lifts and replacement stairways will allow access to all parts of the old and new building in a more easy to follow way.
Some of the people involved showed off the 3d model of the project to a photographer. This is a project on which all sides agree.
After the presentation there were questions and answers.
Regarding the price ticket … The Town Council already has £1M left over from the money they were given by the District Council to take over a building that was loosing £120,000 a year. So they still have £2.5M to raise. It is anticipated with hard work £1M could be raised in grants. Leaving £1.5M to raise. If the Guildhall was better used then it would not be loosing money and £120,000 would not be lost year on year.
So the council could take out a public works loan for ten years or so, or raise the council tax to pay for the remainder up front. Another alternative would be to do some work now and some later. But that would end up costing more, and the initiative might get lost and the project never finished. For more information see the dedicated Guildhall Project website.
Just to add to the very thorough report above, there is a website with some additional details and drawings of the plans at http://www.guildhallproject.co.uk
It also contains a short survey which it would be great is people could complete so that we can understand what people think of the idea and the plans.
Certainly the initial feedback from people last night seemed very positive, but we are very keen to hear the views of as many people as possible, as it would be a big investment for the town and its important that people get the chance to tell the council whether, or not, this is something that we really want.
I am sure a few people will baulk at a price tag of £3.5m. But if we are half-way there already, this is a no-brainer. The plans look good, and Abingdon needs to keep thinking into the future. I am fed up with the few moaners. I love Abingdon and I think we are only going to get stronger.
I think the future of the town centre is primarily as a social nexus. The private sector has/is investing in an increasing number of pubs/restaurants and this is giving the town ‘critical mass’ as a social destination. Add in the upgrading of the County Hall and the possibility of an ‘activity centre’ as proposed for the Guildhall and it’s moving in the right direction.
Having attended the meeting I have two concerns. The first is that the entertainment offerings at the ‘new Guildhall’ should be popularist enough to appeal to the general Abingdon population and the second that the finances are watertight enough not to leave the town with a liability. We don’t want shades of the Millennium Dome.
Yesterday evening’s ‘dissertation’ on the proposed design for the building was opaque, though I’m sure that those with 3-D imaginations, above average eyesight and an intimate knowledge of the building followed the thread. A tad churlish, I know, as it’s difficult to get the physical concept over.
As far as a cinema is concerned … I’m not at all sanguine about the retail prospects for any town centre and the more talk there was about a cinema being a ‘box building’ the more I thought how suitable the two large retail units in Bury Street would be as a cinema. This might be a better use.
Look at those retail units from Queen Street … how ‘box-like’ can you get? An ideal place for a Picture Palace, right in the middle of what remains of ‘Retail Abingdon’. Rip off the new pastiche facade and put on an art deco pastiche facade. Perfect! This is how towns evolved.
I really hope this works and I think Iain has to be congratulated for pushing the project a far as it’s got. Fingers crossed, this could be a reputation-maker for the town.
Thank you both for your comments.
Your idea regarding the precinct,newcomer, is an interesting one. The challenge would be making the numbers work I think as you would need add the costs of leasing the building and potentially additional business rates into the calculation. The advantage of using the guildhall is that these costs and some of the building management costs are already sunk (covered in the existing subsidy) which means we are in effect looking at a marginal cost business case, which is why I believe we can make the numbers work.
Alastair asked a pertinent question last night about why the vale’s local plan felt a privately funded cinema wouldn’t work in Abingdon and I think it is this additional rent/rates cost that forms the basis of why they’ve come to that conclusion.
Not sure if that is clear answer newcomer – shout if not and I’ll try and reword/dejargon.
as a local lady and an ardent film fan I welcome the plan of a cinema. but I hope it wouldn’t like the phoenix picture palace in oxford and show film noir types…..we need a mainstream type of cinema to appeal to the majority of the towns people…..the cineworld complex in didcot is excellent and midweek have reduced ticket rates aswell. would it be this type of cinema chain that would run the cinema…….
Iain, there’s no need to reword/dejargon, or patronize me if we agree to stick to English as it is usually written. I got used to needlessly translating MBA-speak when I was corporate planner for a couple of major companies and did consultancy work for people like Intel (in St Clara) and others.
I wouldn’t suggest that the town run a cinema in Bury Street, it’s just a thought that the commercial people who need to turn a penny might like to consider this alternative should they not rent the space to a major retailer. A cinema in the middle of Bury Street would be infinitely better than one tucked-away round back t’Guildhall (in t’Harrogate speak ;0) The Town Council does talk to the Bury Street developers, doesn’t it …
If a commercial enterprise opened a cinema in the town it would serve the same purpose as the town doing the same. To be honest, I’d prefer the town left the running of Guildhall events to the private sector and just choreographed the building and charged a hiring fee/rent/insurance.
I just lifted my ‘Dictionary of Finance Terms for the Thick’ off the shelf to check out ‘sunk costs’ and as I put it on the desk it fell open at ‘opportunity cost’ … that’s an interesting read….
Don’t out-subtle yourself. I thought it was almost a tour de force for you last night when I feared a tour de farce. All credit to you, but keep the options open. A cinema is a cinema, even if it’s in Bury Street and not showing Art Movies on an endless reel (Guardian-reader Heaven)
Thanks Newcomer – I hadn’t intended to be patronising – just self aware that I can easily slip into corporate speak
Rest assured no decisions made on how we run cinema on this stage and all options very much still on table. Once we reach a conclusion on what sort of scheme we proceed with then commercial and operating models are one of the next things on the list.
Lady Abingdon – one of the questions we’ve asked in survey is what sort of programming people would like so you might like to respond to that. My guess is we will end up having a mixed programme of mainstream, art house and classic cinema which could work quite well in a town like ours but no decisions on this yet until we hear what people would like.
Rest assured no decisions made on how WE run cinema
Your quote, my emphasis.
Well the money is only OURS and not yours and you are the elected beyond their remit (well, £3.5 million is a fair distance)
I hope that WE’RE not going to reach a conclusion and just go ahead with what WE thought in the first place.
Iain, the more you write the more this seems a shoo-in.
Democracy, eh … who’d have thought it?
You’re over interpreting my use of language newcomer – this is a discussion thread so please excuse any clumsy wording – I’m not an English graduate!
I mean we in the broadest possible sense – maybe would have been better to have said ‘how the facility is run’
if we’re going to have a cinema i’d rather it was a ‘proper’ cinema – assuming abingdon could support one.
i.e big screen, multi screen, dolby atmos, dts, sdds, maybe even imax.
one can dream – as a kid i watched films at the abingdon cinema and the sound was so awful you had to strain to make out what anyone was saying.
I have said it once and ill say it agian the town has not enough parking now so where is the parking for this cinema .
Moody man makes me smile! His comments are realistic if not a bit moody!
Didcot looked good after a refurb and Witney is great now so let’s hope for us…
100 seats is not enough for 4 single mums and their kids
I do love this town!
90% of negative comments on this and other blogs are along the lines of “Why doesn’t the Council do something about…..” – even when it is an area over which they have no control. So when the Council does propose something radical, the other 10% pipe up with “Why don’t they leave it to the commercial sector…” If I ever need reminding why i dont stand for the Council things like that do the trick!
And by the way, what is this sudden worry about there not being enough parking? One minute the town is dead, the next, the car parks are full! I was told off a week or two ago for commenting that the car park i was in was busy – people said all the others were empty! For what its worth, I have never found any problem parking in the evening – and if we do get a lively evening economy I am sure the Vale will happily open the multi-storey at night and rake in some more fees. Anyway – why do we all have to drive into town – no-one who lives here is more than a mile away from the centre – and some parts of the town (admittedly not all) have a decent bus service.
There seems to be a lot of reversed snobbery about cinema’s. The Phoenix Picture House and The Ultimate Picture Palace in Oxford show a variety of films, not just cult or art-house films.
Also the idea that the cinema has to be an American-style complex is outdated, most people want personality, not crass commercialism.
Also has anyone pointed out it should be “lose” not “loose”.
with cinema it’s abput quality – no point in paying to see something if the sound and picture are inferior to what i get at home from my own tv and sound system.
Agreed rudi. All our advice has been that we must focus on the end to end experience that will be delivered, rather than just providing functionality.
The architects we are using are specialists in cinema/arts venues and have developed the scheme with this firmly in mind.
Just to add to comment raised by newcomer in post 3 about it being a challenge for people to visualise the facility based on flat plans.
We’ve added a short 3d animation to the website (www.guildhallproject.co.uk) to help people visualise the plans. Hope it helps!
[sir ?] Cyril.
I hope BS wil forgive the brief thread diversion.
While tempting, it would be counterproductive if scholars were to correct all spelling mistakes made by hoi polloi. It’s regarded as poor netiquette. Blogs would rapidly fill and the intended message lost. An even stronger urge appplies to misplaced apostrophes !
The main problem with a Cinema, is not building it, it is what happens next. I would be very surprised to see such a small cinema actually managing to make a profit. Even with the rent “free” just the cost of wages to run the business, the ticketing and advertising and the basic licencing costs of even rather old non-blockbuster films doesn’t come cheap. Can the council really run a commercial business here carving out a niche that can compete with Didcot? Or would it continue to lose money like the open air swimming pool and other town projects? I am a newcomer to Abingdon (6 years) and have seen in other locations councils get very excited about building projects like this, but forget about actually running the resulting building as a business. 100 seats is VERY small and very hard to turn a profit on. Dont forget we already have the Unicorn theater which stands empty nearly every night. It would be several million pounds cheaper to make that into a part time Cinema if there is really the demand…..or is there just a demand for show piece building projects?
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hi i am concerned with these plans i am especially concerned about the cinema aspect which i feel is a frivolous use of council money i hope the council takes the comments on this website seriously and doesn’t end up having to defend them self in a few years.
i am trying to see how much opposition these plans have to that end i have created an online petition at
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/abbingdon-town-council-prevent-the-spending-of-3-5-million-on-the-guildhall-plans
it takes 5 minuets out of your day and would be much appreciated