Today there was Rainbow Cake on sale at the Whippet Kichen at Abingdon Lock.
Abingdon Town Council had voted by 6-5 to not fly a Rainbow flag as part of Oxford Pride next year. Since then a petition has been raised, and the story has gone national. So now Abingdon is fast becoming a rainbow town.
The proposal to fly the Rainbow flag had been put forward by the Lib-Dems on the Council and opposed by Conservatives. There was a Lib-Dem tombola on the Market Place this morning.
Nice cake
Not sure how to react to this topic? As much as everyone is entitled to their opinion/way of life in a “free” society how does that fit in society in general? It’s very awkward?
What precisely is awkward Steve? Isn’t it good for people to be able to bake whatever sort of cake they like?
Very provocative questions given the context of this post! I’d suggest that recent history demonstrates that cake and “lifestyle choices” are incompatible.
Politically, the Conservative group seem very naive in their dealing with this flag issue. Almost a textbook case of “How to attempt to put out a fire by pouring petrol on it.”
All they seem to have guaranteed is that this has now become a cause celebre, both locally and nationally. Someone I know in Luton came up to me today and said “You lived in Abingdon, didn’t you? That’s that homophobic town, isn’t it? What was it like living in a (expletive deleted) like that?”
I tell you, when someone from Luton looks down on your town, you are in deep deep …. mud.
What a poor decision…this would never of happened if we stayed in the EU.
Who said “there is no such thing as bad publicity”?
With the populace of Luton behind the campaign, where will Abingdon end up, could we soon be the new Brighton.
Anyone for Campari & Lemonade?
Just to be clear – this is the decision of the conservative group on the town council not the conservative party. Many Conservatives, including me, think this is an awful decision. Our conservative MP has also suggested the Council should reconsider it’s opinion.
Whatever happened to free speech and thinking in this once great country? Our forefathers fought and died for the right of EVERYONE to express their opinions….now that has been turned against people by many minority groups! People are now labelled homophobic(or racist) for sharing their opinions! These minority groups campaigned for years to be accepted into society…and now that they have been, it’s not enough. All of a suddn they want a “rainbow flag” flown…well what is wrong with the Abingdon flag?? Surely that encompasses EVERYONE??!! Without labelling or differentiating between gender, sexuality, race, colour or creed???!! Why should minority groups be favouritised? IF we asked for a “Straight flag” to represent the majority that would make headline news…as would a white music award..a white met police federation… Apparently now there are not enough black actprs being put forward for oscars…..it SHOULD go on merit…NOT the colour of skin???There seems to be a need for tolerance and acceptance in this country…but it only works one way. I am not racist..or homophobic…but things like this flag business do make me think again. And quite often..as.in this case and blog shows it to be…it is not the people it represents causing a fuss about it…it is the do-gooders causing the fuss because they THINK it is what a minority group want. What next..the ISIS flag flying? Well they are a “hard done by” minority group??!!!
Guido, thanks for demonstrating through satire just exactly why there is a need for the rainbow flag and support for other minority groups. I particularly liked the use of the “I’m not racist or homophobic, but” construct so often used by racists and homophobes.
I’m struggling to see where free speech comes into the flag row. i haven’t spotted the police locking people up or any other body preventing people from expressing their views on this matter.
No Iain..you are condemning people for their opinions! As i said..it’s not the minorities themselves who are kicking off about this…..
So reductio..now I’m a racist homophobe for expressing my opinion? You have so concisely proven my point.
My point is we are ALL equal…why is that not enough for some people?? Why do they…(or the do-gooders that jump on their bandwagon) seek to be more than equal…and highlight and put under the spotlight those who fought for years to be “normal” and accepted into society? Now you try to make them different again?? I really do not understand it?
it is not condemning a person to disagree with them.
I think the decision the council has taken is awful – this does not mean that I think the councillors themselves are awful, and I don’t believe that to be the case.
I think they have made an error of judgement and I hope they will reconsider.
I hope they don’t..
Stop putting the spotlight on minority groups..the majority of whom would rather just get on with their lives…and accept that they are now accepted as part of society.
It seems that you just champion any underdog Iain..and in the end it just dilutes any legitimate causes you may wish to support… For genuine reasons..not just because it’s the “in thing” to do.
I get your point Guido, and you’re probably right about expressing views on lots of issues.
However I’m capable of making my own judgements on when I think something is right or wrong and I think this decision makes our town look benighted (which it isn’t).
WHY does it??? We are not flying millions of flags of minorities?? So does that mean we hate all of those? Where do you draw the line?? As i said..shall we put an ISIS flag up? Far better and safer in my opinion to stick with the Union Jack and the Abingdon flag..that encompasses EVERYONE in the town..and No one feels left out , marginalised or hard done by.
Five questions in one paragraph is a bit tricky to respond to in a short post.
Essentially it looks bad because it suggests that we as a town cannot face showing support for a cause celebrating a group of people who our society has historocally discriminated against, and indeed are still labelled as ‘sinners’ by several mainstream religions.
If people feel marginalised or hard done by if our town shows support for an event like pride then they should perhaps look into their own hearts a little harder.
Your comparrison of pride with ISIS is ridiculous
Mind you, it’s still a very pretty cake!
I always find it interesting how the people who shout the loudest and most often about their “right to express an opinion” are also the people who don’t think others should be allowed to express their opinion of that opinion. Any ‘right to free speech’ that exists surely does not end with the first statement made? In the same way that our Conservative town councillors were free to express their opinions and vote down the motion everyone else should be free to express their opinion about that.
Finally Guido. No, simply expressing an opinion does not make you racist or homophobic but if people feel that that opinion is racist or homophobic surely the same free speech you are so enamoured of allows them the right to express that opinion?
It does indeed reductio..but it also shows that you know absolutely nothing about me.
As from a previous recent issue..at amazes me how suddenly, people don’t agree with democracy… The very thing that they are professing to spout on about?
Iain..my comparison with ISIS was MEANT to be ridiculous…as is the assumption that ANY minority group can suddenly insist that we all should conform to their views and beliefs. But why is it so ridiculous? It is a political minorrity..brought about because of percieved oppression… So wbat is to stop other minorities demanding that their flag be flown? And why don’t you jump on their bandwagon so quickly?
Yes Sarah, it is still a great cake.
Oh dear the PC brigade are out in force today, and how gullible they are. This whole matter is a highly political issue which is of course then hotly denied by all. There are some in the LGBT community who for some reason still think that as a group they are still discriminated against. Surely all our recent changes in law: gay marriage, gender reassignment paid for by the NHS, etc.,etc… prove that whatever battle there was, has been won. The fact that these changes deeply upset those who have been brought up in a contrary belief and value system cannot be ignored. By perpetuating this argument the PC contributors (who are probably straight), simply fuel any flames of resentment and make it an issue for most of us who really aren’t bothered.
What annoys me more that anything is people telling me how to think, and the more this is done, the more I will do the opposite (out of obstinacy). I’m not alone in this, I think it is an English trait. The Brexit result adds weight to my theory.
Disagreeing with a democratically made decision is not the same as disagreeing with democracy.
I wonder why the houses of parliament, the scottish parliament, city hall in london and oxford town hall, all seem relaxed about flying the rainbow flag?
In my time as a councillor we only received one suggestion to fly a flag which was for the army in relation to armed forces day, and the council was delighted to support it. We’re hardly facing a deluge of minority groups wanting to fly their flags and I’m sure the council are capable of weeding out any requests from ISIS.
Hear hear Mr Smith..at last a voice of reason!
Naughty old Waitrose for wilfully whipping up such personal political angst for so many with their provocative bakery procurement policy. I bought one of these rainbow cakes some months ago for my son’s birthday. Little did I realise! Perhaps we could make amends to Oxford by throwing rainbow cupcakes at the the next bun throwing?
Btw..the cake LOOKS (not saying it is, before the pc brigade start and the lawsuits start coming in…), as though it is full of horrible tasting food colourings and additives? And afe we allowed to eat cake this wewk..or is that still bad for us?
Dear -Guido, We had assumed it was all natural colourings–frogs for the green layer, ladybirds for the red, kingfishers for the blue, bruises for the purple, and so on. You’re not seriously suggesting there might be an E number in there are you? I’m shattered!
Sarah & Guido, yet again spot on.
Although I trust E numbers will now be replaced with B numbers? Especially if based on your special ingredients. Yum, yum…
Of course I know nothing about you Guido, you’ve chosen to use a pseudonym as have I. Any opinion I form has to be based solely on what you say within this forum and so will always two dimensional and flawed. Based on that, and that alone, it strikes me that you use phrases and arguments, either by accident or design, that are often used by intolerant and bigoted people. If this does not reflect the true you and that bothers you then perhaps you should think before you use them.
Sarah..it’s the yellow you need to avoid…remember the old saying….?…NEVER eat yellow snow!
Dear Guido, Little chance of that, I fear. We’ve not had snow since the last Labour government! The Conservatives snuck that on to their manifesto without anyone noticing. At least in Europe they get plenty of snow!
And which phrases are they reductio? I can’t see anything intolerant or bigoted in my posts… I was merely pointing out (yet again..and I’ll type it slowly so maybe you understand it this time…) that we have already accepted minorities…why do they need proof..or MORE acceptance?
Unless of course you are pointing out my intolerance and bigotedness towards do-gooders and bandwagon jumpers..of which i will hold my hands up and accept your criticism. I cannot abide them!
It would be interesting to know, out of the posters on here criticising the councillors..who are actually part of the lgbt community…are there any? (or am i not allowed to ask that because it doesn’t actually make any difference)…which is my point exactly..what difference does the flag make??
So Guido, I take it that it is your opinion that only those who are part of a particular section of the community can campaign for the rights of that section?
Men cannot speak out about the objectification of women that leads to them being physically and verbally abused in public?
Able bodied people cannot campaign against the cuts to disability benefits that resulted in misery and suicides?
Straight people cannot speak out about the fact that in very many countries of the world being gay is still a crime punishable by the death penalty?
People who do well at school cannot campaign against funding cuts that leave those who struggle to integrate even more isolated?
Just how is that supposed to work? When a section of a community is marginalised to the point where their voices cannot be heard, those of us not in that section have an obligation to speak out for them until they are fully included and no longer fear that those rights will be taken away again. Flying the rainbow flag is not about giving the LGBT community anything ‘extra’ it’s about showing solidarity for years of past oppression (hundreds of men still have criminal records as a result of being gay for example) and looking forward to a future where no one has to feel afraid as a result of their gender orientation or sexual preference. That’s why for many people, gay and straight, the decision of our town council is an affront and an insult.
I can see why the LGBT community would feel that they still have to fight for rights after decades of criminalisation and discrimination but I do question the need for not wanting to join the rest of the community. I worked with a gay colleague and it made no difference to me and I regarded him as a friend but HE wanted to make a point about he sexuality. It only bothered him. If people flew a heterosexual flag they would be accused as being against and not including gay people. In the Police force they have a Black Police federation. If they had a white police federation they would have been called racist. I joined an evening class in an Oxford college and the people in the class were from a very diverse range of the population. We all got in together very will until we were all given an ethnicity form to complete to identify which ethnic group we came from. This immediately divided people. I refuse to fill these things in now.
Guido – ‘millions’ of minority groups have not asked to fly a flag in Abingdon.
In fact Oxford Pride didn’t ask to fly a flag in Abingdon.
My wife, who is a Town Councillor, and I, also a Town Councillor, who both happen to be straight, put forward a motion to fly the rainbow flag.
Our motivation was that we had seen the rainbow flag flying in Oxford following the Orlando shootings, and because we have recently spoken to several young people in Abingdon who had been to Oxford Pride and wanted their town to show its support for inclusivity.
We didn’t expect it to be controversial and we were surprised by the opposition from the Conservatives and some of the arguments they used against it.
I still can’t understand why so many people object to the idea.
It seems obvious to me that a group of people who have faced centuries of discrimination want to celebrate the fact that there is now a lot more acceptance of them being them, and I, for one, want to show that Abingdon stands with them.
Janet – in no way does wanting to fly a rainbow flag suggest that LGBT people don’t want to ‘join the rest of the community’. They already are part of the community. The rainbow flag stands for inclusivity, not separateness. There isn’t a ‘heterosexual falg’ because there’s no need for one. Heterosexual people haven’t faced centuries of oppression for being heterosexual. Similarly white police offficers haven’t faced decades of discrimination.
…I think, what we’re trying to say here, is that it’s Ok to have your cake AND eat it….
Ok Neil, point taken. But where do you draw the line? An obese peoples flag? An anorexic flag? Victims of bullying flag? Battered wives maybe? Yes i am just drawing names out of thin air..but all are surely worthy causes..who have suffered through the years….so why not include them? A rainbow flag does NOT stand for inclusivity…unless you are a member of that particular community? If i saw a rainbow flag, it wouldn’t offend me..but i certailby wouldn’t think it was there on my behalf? And IF I was in another minority group, i might well feel offended that the lgbt community was being recogniaed and not my particular group. Ii really do not understand why so much fuss has been made about NOT flying the flag…
I do think though, if you are going to promote one minority group you should be prepared to promote all…and that is impossible to include all…so better to not include any.
I have tried really hard not to join in this discussion, but failed..
Surely the point of Pride is in the name: it is a celebration of the fact that we have moved on from the time of the Stonewall riots (Google it) and now have an inclusive society which doesn’t judge people by their sexuality, colour or whatever.
I have been to various cities in the last few years, seen the rainbow flag flying and felt uplifted. So I am truly saddened – and has Neil Fawcett has said, taken aback – that the “debate” in Abingdon has reduced it to nastiness, spite and small-minded points-scoring. It doesn’t do our town any good at all.
To use a phrase which those of us of a certain age will remember “I vill say zis onlee once..” – so feel free to hurl your insults at me!
All these “what about other minority groups?” arguments are slightly straw man affairs.
Many (most?) towns and cities fly the rainbow flag without a problem. None, so far as I know, are inundated with demands from other minority groups for “their” flag to be flown. So really, Abingdon is worrying about an eventuality that is not going to happen. Unless the fear is that the notoriety that this event has aroused will make Abingdon a target for groups trying to score a point?
can’t see it, myself.
My very last word on the subject (i promise you)…it does amuse me that those who preach tolerance are the most intolerant when someone opposes their views? Personally, it doesn’t matter one iota to me if a “rainbow” flag is hoisted..or a sky blue pink one. Just playing devil’s advocate… ;0) Good night
…as someone who now suffers with “thin ‘air”, I hope this will be represented by a flag soon.
Haven’t got a view on the flag, but the cake was very nice, in fact all her cakes are excellent, It’s a shame she only opens up at the weekends.
Maybe next weekend she’ll bake a topical Labour/ Tory cake we can all eat.
The gin and tonic cup cakes are excellent. Shame Liz has a day job as I thinks she could make her fortune here
Who wants to bet that Guido is a white, heterosexual male – the one group that has never been disadvantaged and discriminated against?
Guido, it disgusts me that there are people in this town like you that are shocked when someone calls what you write bigoted, for that is what it is.
Now, please tell us about how you support Trump and think him and Farage should just run the world, after outlawing th EU.
I have just Googled Gin and Tonic Cupcakes. There may be dancing on the streets of Luton this weekend.
avant…as i said..those who preach about intolerance are always the most intolerant of anyone who doesn’t hold the same view as themselves.
As for that monstrosity called the eu…it will destroy itself. You really think we’ll be the only ones to leave?? Put your rose coloured spectacles back on before anyone else disgusts you… I’m not disgusted by you…pity is more the word. Bless you and your reverse bigotted opinions…
Gin and Tonic cupcakes are lovely, easy to make, and tasty.
Helpful hints:
Use more tonic than most recipes suggest.
Don’t use the good gin. Your wife will shout at you.
For the record who was going to pay for the flag?