Last Friday, Radio 4’s Any Questions was introduced by Jonathan Dimbleby … “Welcome to Oxfordshire, to Abingdon beside the Thames, and to an Independent Girls School with pupils aged between 9 and 18, called St Helen and St Katharine School. It has all the facilities that you might expect of such an institution including a Science Centre with twelve new laboratories and a 3-D design centre. The School’s vision is to inspire the next generation of leading women.”
With just under three weeks to go to the EU referendum, the first question was ‘If we Brexit will we have more control to limit immigration?”
There to answer were Caroline Lucas, Green MP and board member of the pro-European Britain Stronger in Europe campaign, seen her with Rebecca Dougall, Head of the school. Also there were Gisela Stuart, Labour MP for Birmingham, Edgbaston and Chair of the Vote Leave campaign; and Julia Hartley-Brewer, journalist and broadcaster, current morning presenter on Talk Radio and a vociferous Brexiter,
and Lord Heseltine. Caroline Lucas had the final words on the first question and spoke on the value of inspiring people, particularly young people, about everything that is positive about EU membership.
Next was a question from 16 year-old Florence Wiggins a Lower 6 student at St Helen’s. “Why weren’t 16 and 17 year olds being allowed to vote in the forthcoming referendum?” The exchange included Julia Hartley-Brewer commenting wryly that “Cameron is now wishing he’d extended voting rights as polls suggest more 16 and 17 year olds would vote stay” and was thrown back to Florence who articulated the position that this was about the future of the UK and that the impact legacy of the decision on 23rd June will be on her generation, citing the previously temporarily lowered voting age for the 2014 Scottish independence referendum.
Impressed by the balance and maturity of Florence’s response, Lord Heseltine said “I may not want to give the vote to all 16 year olds, but I would certainly give the vote to you” which was greeted with a mighty cheer from the 300 strong audience.
The rest of the programme can be heard at BBC Radio 4 – Any Questions.
Why is Lord Heseltine part of these debates? In what other occupation does a retired man of 83 get such a high profile role as spokesperson for a referendum of which he will likely not see the impact of in 20 – 30 years time? He was part of the government that created the country that we now live in.
I agree that younger people should be allowed to vote in what is a decisive vote for their future. And I do not believe that many 16 – 30 year olds will vote to stay as these are the people who cannot find the jobs they crave (and which pay enough to live on), buy houses etc etc.
Mmm, I wonder – most of the young people I have spoken to who are going to vote are unequivocally “in”. They have a different take on it, having not grown up with the “Empire/Commonwealth/England rules the world” mindset – they are used to freedom of movement, multiculturalism etc. One young man I spoke to said “our generation sees ourselves as Europeans”. Yes they face the problems re jobs and housing, but I am not sure that they blame that on EU membership or see Brexit as the panacea to solve it. As we know, there are a lot of young people who won’t bbe voting at all and I suspect that those who are anti-EU also fall in the “I can’t be bothered to vote” category. But I could be wrong..
I may have misunderstood….and my apologies if I have; but whether we are ‘in or out’, we will still be able to move around. And multiculturalism will still exist, and be allowed to exist, and be welcomed to exist regardless.
Likewise whilst ‘leaving’ may not be a panacea to the issues facing “the young”, being ‘in’ (all this time) has not addressed any of the issues facing us (or them – as I am a VERY elderly 41) either.
I wonder where “the young” are getting their information?
I do think that the “I can’t be bothered” are as equally unbothered for IN as they are for OUT – not everyone who wants “out” is a white, elderly, homophobic racist. In fact…it is possible to use intellect rather than headlines to reach an “out” decision…and not be any of those things….
I myself am disappointed that has descended into such pathetic point scoring rather than actual debate. You don’t have to be a white racist to vote leave, but you can guarantee that all white racists will be voting leave!
I agree younger people should be allowed to vote – i thought it worked well in the scottish referendum, and on an important issue that affects their future they should be allowed to voice their opinion.
To quote the old adage, if they’re old enough to join the army and die for their country they deserve a voice in how its governed.
Two years ago I visited the war grave of private V J Strudwick, he’s buried at Essex Farm cemetery, Ypres, he died on the 14/01/1916 aged 15, for sure he was old enough to die for his country, he did, but was he knowledgable enough to vote for it? I doubt it.
In my opinion the voting age should be raised to at least 21, most under that are to busy locked into their I phones and social media and haven’t the faintest idea what this referendum is about, as far as they are concerned an out vote would deprive them of free travel and that’s about the sum of their concerns!
…whilst at 16 you can join the army, you can’t be on the front line until you are 18.
I’m not suggesting 16 yr olds shouldnt be able to vote…but I do think, as an analogy, and perhaps even a metaphor for the whole EU debate, it is interesting how “facts” can come across…people should be careful what they say, as they might unintentionally mislead….but likewise…you should always read with caution; and a pinch of salt…
To further illustrate the point…whilst you can join the army at 16, you can’t fight on the front line until you are 18; having said that, at 16 you sign up for 6 years and so may well end up on the front line as an adult, based on a commitment you made as a minor.
My point isn’t about the army…it hopefully urges people to look below the surface of what people say….whether that be a “n-inny”, or an “out-urd” regarding Europe, or anything else.
It’s a shame that it’ll be shallow headlines that determine the EU outcome.
Never mind the Ins and Outs, the Hokey Cokey is what it’s all about.
Nice can of worms opening here, BS.
I think that joining the services as a minor is more about getting some life structure and a job plus valuable skills which, in time, would enable a level of mental agility to make sensible voting decisions; “being (apparently) prepared to die for your country” does not itself infer sound decision making capacity.
Are the “we’ve got to stay in or armageddon will descend” fear mongers really saying that our own politicians and captains of industry are so incompetent that they are incapable of managing this country efficiently ? If that is true, UK is doomed whichever way the vote goes.
I would like at least the illusion of democracy and be abe to vote in (and out) our own idiots.
I wonder how much impact our footballers’ success (or lack thereof) in the European tournament will have upon how people vote. I suspect if we do well, there’ll be a wave of Europe-love and more people will vote, and will vote to remain. If we’re out in two seconds flat, there’ll be a move for a return to splendid isolation, but in the doom and gloom turnout will fall. I have a feeling that the politicians’ campaigning will be as nought in comparison to the footie results (and in any case, the fact that it shouldn’t be a party political issue seems to have been escaped the campaigners).
There are may 16 year olds who would be able to articulate the arguments much more clearly than many older people. Perhaps age shouldn’t be the bar but some other test of competence?
You raise a good point Sarah – the 1970 general election was widely considered to have been influenced by England’s performance in the World Cup. This could be even more interesting as we have two other home nations (plus Ireland who some Northern Irish people follow) in the tournament this time.
I do believe the prime minister’s wife is a St Helen’s Old Girl…as am I.
Young people today have not experienced life without hard won improvements in the standard of living therefore would not realise the importance of them. I have relatives who told me about life before the NHS. Several of my uncles school friends died because they lived in a poor region of Cornwall with unemployment and people could not afford to see the doctor. Doctors would not see anyone who could not pay. similarly with dental care. A report said that children’s teeth are becoming bad again because people cannot find an NHS dentist. My last dental treatment cost £800. People on low incomes cannot afford it. We do not want our standard of living to deteriorate.
Captainkoas2 “as far as they are concerned an out vote would deprive them of free travel”.
I’m fed up with hearing this. There is no such thing as ‘Free Travel’.
Nothing would change. European countries need tourism and we like to spend money. Simple as that.
Brexit!
Interesting issues raised by Janet. I like Janet. And, without wanting to inadvertently put words in her mouth, or for me to misunderinterpretate her thoughts….but I feel that this point (#11) nicely sums up what is going on; and perhaps accounts for her thoroughly entitled view….
There was some interesting discussion on the radio this week, and I think it may have been in relation to the BHS malarkey and/or how the Sports Direct – or indeed many big ‘businesses’ are run…..
A great number of people were ringing in (it was a phone in programme) detailing their issues with their contracts etc – how being one minute late docks you 15 minutes pay. How, on a zero hour contract if you do not pick up the phone if you are called in…you won’t be called again for a couple of weeks (almost as a ‘punishment’), how it Is not possible to plan for the week, let alone a future when you do not know whether you will be working tomorrow, next week or next month…
However…conveniently, for those rich business chaps…the ones who get richer as many get poorer…we have all been blindsided. Whilst we are all arguing about ‘immigrants’…the wealthy continue to exploit the poor….even more so now than in history. The awful conditions, the ones that make us wince that Janet details above….are still apparent today. We are no further on than we were 70, or 100 years ago. Slavery isn’t abolished; it’s just not seen.
“Europe” is guilty of the growing chasm between rich and poor…but funnily enough, the mega buck industries that drive Europe haven’t done much to address the issue…
I think there is a very obvious thread that weaves itself through many of the topics we discuss on this blog…
It is all linked. The disparity between rich and poor…and the fact we seem to rather argue over immigrants and Europe…than tackle the real issues.
Right..I’m off to Starbucks, to use my smartphone and search on Google for a book available on Amazon about how we might hope to raise more taxes to redress the balance….
I’m not adverse to immigration per se, the policies we had pre EU allowed us to control pretty much who came in, and those who had an automatic rite of entry through their commonwealth connection have made a significant contribution to the UK, many second and third generation Asians are completely integrated, doctors, opticians, solicitors, pharmacist, restauranters etc etc, and for sure many later “guests” from the EU are filling unfill able roles, that said I’m sure I’m not the only one thinking that the big issue is immigration? But of the wrong sort and uncontrollable, for instance there are now 2.5 million refugees in turkey, predominantly Syrian, Afagan, Iraq, Iran and North African Muslims, the EU are allowing Turks a visa free entry to the EU as part of the deal for Turkey to house those refugees, however, as soon as this happens those refugees will be given Turkish citizenship and then be able to pass freely into the EU, and I don’t have to say where they’ll be heading !
It’s not been agreed yet and what is under negotiation is allowing Turkish citizens visa-free travel in the Schengen Common Visa Area which does not include the UK. It is this sort of misinformed comment (above) that will lead people to vote leave and be a disaster for the UK.
Agreed….a lot of information that is half truth, not quite right, and not the full story seems to make the headlines.
And, it is likely that rather a referendum on our sovereignty and our economy and all the other issues; it will in fact just be a referendum on immigration. Which is a shame, when there’s so much more at stake. But a disaster? I’m not so sure.