Last year the Vale of White Horse District Council (VWHDC) asked residents how they thought £500,000 should be spent to improve the Abbey Meadows. There were three schemes, but only one involved keeping the outdoor pool. The consultation turned into a campaign to keep the outdoor pool, and people voted overwhelmingly in favour of the option with the outdoor pool. So the pool is staying but does not appear to be having any major investment.
The money will be spent as follows:
- The pool building will get a face-lift and new public toilets will be provided.
- There will be a new changing room for the splash area.
- The play area will be upgraded to create two adventure playgrounds, one for younger children and another for older children – replacing the crazy golf.
- The tennis courts are to be replaced with a new multi-use games area.
- New picnic tables and seating will be added near the river.
Total cost £610,000 – £570,000 comes from the Vale of White Horse District Council, and £45,000 from the Old Gaol development.
Work on the new play areas and the swimming pool building is expected to start this autumn and be completed in spring 2017, but some of the smaller improvements will happen earlier in the year.
Before that, in 2016:
- The outdoor pool will be open between 28 May and 4 September.
- The splash pad will be turned on each day from 9am until 7pm also between 28 May and 4 September.
- The tennis court, crazy golf and pitch and putt are available every day between 11am and 6pm during the summer holiday, on bank holiday weekends, and during weekends from 11 June.
I read about this a few days ago on AbingdonFirst, and now also in the Oxford Mail – good that this is getting publicity.
Is no money being spent on the pool itself? I remember Matt Barber saying that £500k was just the start of ongoing investment in the area….is that still true?
One assumes those responsible for the pool are liaising closely with their equivilents who run Hinksey outdoor pool…to glean why that is such a well used resource?
I can think of a couple ideas myself…so it isn’t rocket science…
A good news story…don’t let us down Veil…
Speaking of which…
Does anyone else have an opinion on the ock path to Tesco? So, the path was decrepit and bad and muddy…so we asked for it to be sorted out…and the ensuing huffing and fluffing over who’s responsibility it was…and now it’s all been… tarmaced.
Is it just me, or would a cheaper, more in keeping solution could have been found?
It must seem that “they can’t do right for doing wrong”… But a tarmaced path…really…?
But, apart from that, the towns great – The flowers are looking good, and we have a bigger superdrug…when does our revamped carpark open!?
When are we getting our replacement willow tree on the Old Gaol riverside?
Rather a shame that some of the money couldn’t have been put towards upgrading the path from the pool to the lock.
I hope that when the improvements are done there will be more of an effort to prevent littering. It spoils public areas. There should be visible notices making clear the fine for littering and there should be more of an effort to enforce the fines.
Also seems rather a shame that the crazy golf will go. All it needs is tarting up. Re litter, agree but it doesn’t matter how many signs or bins you provide, thoughtless people will still act like idiots. Just look at Albert Park. New bins provided and still the littering is as bad as ever – usually right next to the bins. Enforcement will never happen – fact.
Only £500k… that’s not much in today’s money really is it. As with all public spaces you are charged with creating a reason for people to want to go there which is no mean feat in itself.
All things considered I suppose we should be thankful the Abbey Meadow hasn’t been sold to a local developer for luxury riverside condo’s to be built on.
Let’s hope that the new public toilets will be properly maintained and not vandalised.This area of the Abbey Meadow has been well utilised and especially popular in Summer for decades.I always assumed that it was maintenance of the swimming pool itself which drained all the money but Abingdon deserves to have a riverside attraction at least as good as Hinksey where we always had to go when we were young.Together with the Abbey Grounds this is an important facility for the town.I can never understand why Albert Park doesn’t have any facilities as people are always asking to use ours at The Bowls Club but I guess that it is down to Christ’s Hospital.
Geoff – Albert Park used to have a couple of tennis courts… you can see where the were near the Bowls Club.
Craig – I agree about the cycle path to the lock it is dangerously uneven.
Can anyone remember the temporary skatepark in the Abbey pool ?
I have been an active blogger here for improvements to be made to both the Ock Valley path and the Abbey Meadow (whinger) and am glad to see that things have moved forward at both locations. I find it difficult to understand how, when moves are made to improve things, there are still those who will moan. All these works have to be paid for and if the Vale puts forward our money, then so be it. at least its for works in the town and for those of us who live here
Looks like a good proposal.
The pool was only ever a view of a vocal (and to be fair, well organised) minority. Glad significant sums aren’t being spent on a resource that the majority of visitors to the park do not use.
The crazy golf is again not something the majority of users make use of, so it makes sense for it to make way for something that hopefully will.
I hope they put a decent cafe in. The plans for one at the boathouse on the other side on the bridge look great, but as a parent who uses the park weekly, being able to grab a decent coffee or ice cream at the park would be a welcome addition and a chance to relax by the river and beautiful location (and make use of the new picnic tables).
I know there’ll be screams of ‘there are enough cafes already’, but try and get a table at Throwing Buns, Costa or Java (the only ones the middle classes of Abingdon frequent) at the weekend and you’ll be very lucky!
It’s very sad to hear the Crazy Golf course will be totally replaced. As the game is enjoying a resurgence around the country the town is missing a trick by not upgrading/refurbishing the course.
It’s good to hear the area is getting a revamp though. I’ve got very happy memories of fishing in the bay, swimming in the pool and playing the minigolf course while growing up in the town.
Not sure I can agree Dave.
Geoff; it would make sense on all fronts that dialogue is happening with Hinksey pool to find out what makes it such a success. This is a shame; I have been here 10 years and I have not once seen sense prevail, at The Veil….
How are your plans for the footbridge and the sunday market coming on Daniel?
I gave up on those ages ago iain.
I think people are moaning because it clearly said that the money was going to be spent on refubishing the pool which it desperately needs & clearly now the council have back tracked & the money is not being spent on it. Yes the pool was saved but in five years time this will tear it’s head again with no money being spent on it! The pool could be a great asset to the town & bring visitors in such as Hinksey pool where people travel to use it. I found the quote from the council very disappointing & factually incorrect about there only being 60 swimmers a week. It was very negative & patronising!
Hinksey User Group Meeting
Here is a message sent yesterday to members at Hinksey Pool
We hope you are enjoying our season so far.
We would like to invite you to our start of season user group meeting. Rather than using the customary community centre we will be holding it at Hinksey Pool itself on Wednesday 4th May 2016 at 19:00.
If you would like to come and join us for a pre meeting swim followed by a free BBQ & drinks. Customary glass of prossecco.
Please bring along any feedback you may have for us, to help us improve our season.
If you could RSVP whether you can attend, as we will need to make sure we have enough food and drinks for everyone.
We look forward to seeing you
END
How very refreshing and typical of the positive attitude at Hinksey, where they have many innovative ideas to attract swimmers of all ages.
How different at Abingdon when after having a consultation with 81% wanting the pool to be the focus of the meadow, they decide to spend over £600k, none of it on the pool.
What is this footfall the shopkeepers of Abingdon demand, and how will doing nothing to the pool help that? And is the first duty of the council to please the shopkeepers, or to please the residents and visitors who flock to the Abbey Meadow pool in their ten thousands.
The VALE DRAFT CORPORATE PLAN 2016 – 2020
Is to be discussed at the Vale Cabinet Meeting today at ten am. It is item 6 on the agenda.
http://democratic.whitehorsedc.gov.uk/documents/s36503/Corporate%20plan%202016-2020.pdf
Under the heading, “Sustainable Communities and Wellbeing” you can read how …
“We will increase participation in sport and leisure through
continuous improvement programmes for our leisure centres and facilities
investing in our parks and gardens, including Abbey Gardens and Wantage Park ”
How is failure to deal with the known problems of the Abbey Meadow Pool going to increase participation in Sport and Leisure?
Better revise the Draft Corporate Plan before they get shown to be telling porkies, not just about how they will increase participation when they won’t, at least not in swimming at the Abbey Meadow – a place to swim and play, they call it – but also the porkies about nobody using it when attendance regularly tops ten thousand.
I wish the pool had better opening hours – the Hinksey Pool is open for an early lane swim and if Abingdon was, I’d use it frequently over the summer months.
Otherwise I’m happy to see the area getting some redevelopment.
Re: comment 14.
Spot-on comment, Daniel.
Putting an idea forward for consideration is constructive, but having the honesty and grace to drop it when it doesn’t have legs is common sense.
Hopefully, Iain has taken this on board.
Suitably inspired Iain, I have contacted The Veil today to start the ball rolling regarding the footbridge.
With regards the Sunday Market; I have every faith that the BID team are already on this.
Meanwhile, with, for example the mini/crazy golf…it is so very telling that this is making a welcome resurgence nationally, with people travelling from far and wide to “good crazy golf”, with dedicated followers, social media, clubs etc…and how so very behind the curve the Veil are.
Still…mustn’t grumble…
oh dear newcomer…I hope you won’t be too disappointed with my constructive morning…
Having played Water Polo on holiday, maybe they could look to use the pool for sport as well as recreation. The only issues I have ever had with the pool is that it was always freezing and as mentioned there should be a beach style entry so it’s easier for kids to walk into the water.
Other than that the plans look pretty good to me 🙂
To help add some facts to Ali (15) and Nessie (17)’s comments on number of visitors to the pool.
When I was a town councillor I had access to the pool usage numbers as at that point we gave a grant of £45k pa to the Vale which has now lapsed.
My data is a couple of years out of date but I would be surprised if the numbers have changed much.
For the ten years I have the average attendance for the pool is an average of 79 swimmers a day. So Ali is totally correct that the figure of 60 people a week printed in the Herald is an error either by the councillor or the reporter.
The attendance varies considerably year on year, with the lowest being 35 swimmers a day and the highest being 134, probably in a particularly warm summer I’d guess. The total number of swims in a season has only exceeded 10,000 once though, so Nessie is incorrect to say attendance regularly tops 10,000.
I have no strong views on the pool but just wanted to clarify the figures.
Iain, were you/are you aware of anyone “from the pool” making waves [so to speak] to contact Hinksey for help or advice?
I wasnt involved in the running Daniel so cant speak with any authority.
I went to a pool friends meeting back in 2011 where they clearly had contact with the user groups for the other pools talked about the different models at the different pools (i think there are 6 in Oxfordshire). They all have very different ownership models and I think ours is (please correct me if i’ve misremembered) the only one that was council run. I think all of them were struggling financially and to generate income for capital investment.
I know the temperature was a particular difference between hinksey and abingdon and my understanding is that to fix this would involve fairly significant capital investment.
The facilities at Abbey meadow that people have enjoyed for years need upgrading. They would be used more often if:
the rest of the world knew they were there.
they had friendlier opening times.
there were incentives to use them.
What about Oxford’s Slice and the Governments schemes to get people more active?
thank you for that Iain.
Personally (and not directly at you Iain), I feel it is the Council involvement that, in the nicest possible way, is/was the issue. Councils do not/can not/rarely are able to run commercial enterprises. And they shouldn’t have to. Professional companies and people do that.
The out door pool needs “someone who knows how to run out door pools” running it…not “The Council”. That…or a more progressive thinking, on the ball, modern Council….
Iain I think you are wrong about which pools are council run. Of the six Oxfordshire pools Banbury, Woodstock, Chippie, Wallingford, Hinksey, Abingdon, only Chippie is not Council run. GLL have the contracts for operating three of them at Wallingford, Abingdon and Woodstock.
As far as the figures for the pool are concerned I might be a little wrong. I seem to remember the figure of around 10,000 being used by the consultants when the Consultation on the pool started. It was up to 23 or 26 thousand in 1976 but safety regs would never allow the overcrowding we then had. Although there wasn’t room to drown.
Apologies – I’m sure youre right Nessie – it was some time ago but I’m pretty sure there were quite different operating models – maybe it was something to do with the role the user groups played (wish i could recall the details).
Daniel – appreciate point not directed at me (wasnt the coundil i was on anyway). To be fair though the running of the pool is not done directly by the council, it was operated until about two years ago by Soll Leisure and more recently by GLL. Both are commercial organisations.
Thanks Iain…clearly some commercial enterprises are better than others…
Meanwhile, and hijacking as threatened…
The reply to my FOI has been given, regarding the Carpark revamp as well as the most expensive toilet refurb on the planet! I have asked AbingdonFirst to post it so anyone interested can read it and pick at it as they wish…
Just swam at Hinksey. The lane swimming was crowded and the water lovely and warm. They reckon to get 100 people per day on a day like today, 200 per day on an average weekend day. And 300 per day on the best day so far. And that is in April. The gentleman who claimed there were 60 per week in Abingdon declined an invitation that was sent to all the Cabinet by the Oxford Leisure manager to go and visit Hinksey because he thought Hinksey was a very different kind of pool from Abbey Meadow.
Obviously they are determined to keep it so.
Hinksey is designed so one lifeguard can see all of the pool. Abingdon’s learner pool can’t be used when they only have one lifeguard. The cabinet and Leisure Department were recommended to incorporate a beach area, making the pool more attractive to children progressing from the water splash to deeper water, but they haven’t listened. With a beach area instead of the leaner pool a single lifeguard could survey the whole pool, increasing attractiveness and decreasing operating costs. It would pay for itself.
Daniel and Iain, please don’t get me wrong. The operation by GLL is brilliant, very much better than SOLL ever was. They do have a problem though and that is the pool design and the lack of maintenance. So shocked were they, when they took over, at the state of the pool (it was covered in green Algae) that they painted the learner pool (the council had retiled its floor) and they deep cleaned the rest, to bring it up to a standard that had been declared to be impossible to achieve, according to SOLL Leisure and according to the Vale officers alike.
But that doesn’t overcome the fundamental limitations of the pool design. Its a pity because we have the best pool location and the only pool in the area where diving is possible. Water Polo would also be possible but the pool ideally should be ten metres wide, not thirty feet wide. Adding the extra metre would have been possible had they bitten the bullet to rebuild the South Wall of the pool, and it would have made more room for diving at the same time as people are swimming laps.
It seems, sadly, and once again…Abingdon’s fortune is limited by The Veil.
Someone sent me this message
Naomi Richardson (she who raised the petition about the pool) was on BBC Radio Oxford about 5:30 pm in dialogue with Matthew Barber. She did well.
My informant continued “I was amazed to hear Matthew Barber saying that the Friends of the Outdoor Pool have been telling us for years that we have a very good pool and that it didn’t need to be relined”
In April 2014 FOAMOP hired a pool consultant (pro-bono) who demonstrated to Matthew Barber and Elaine Ware what is wrong with the liner and what needs to be done to correct it. This was reinforced in a paper to Cabinet in autumn 2015.
Here is the recording of the Abbey Meadow discussion from the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03r5d7z The key statement by Matthew B about not needing to be relined is at about 2m30s to 2m40s.
Jon I think you will find the small minority was in fact 81% of the votes!!! I feel this is really short sighted, the pool could be a fantastic asset to Abingdon & actually bring more visitors to the town. The whole point is people don’t use the pool as its run down. If money was spent on it more people would use it!
Thank you Iain for the figures, only Sandy Lovett can tell us if it is an error on his behalf or he meant to say this. His whole quote about the pool is negative & why refuse an invitation to visit Hinksey!? Call me an old cynic but the Vale clearly didn’t want to keep the pool but with the majority voting to keep it they couldnt get rid of it so this is the next best thing. Spend no money on it & they will be calling to close it again in five years time when it’s more run down! I’ve always tried to be positive about Abingdon as I love living here but it’s so frustrating with the lack of vision, motivation & interest by our council!
Out of interest then, as the Veil have no interest on the pool (and barely in Abingdon itself)…as the pool is actually operated by a commercial enterprise, should they not be approached regarding its investment…or is it GLL just run it for The Veil?
As ever…if we can chop out the rot (The Veil)…perhaps we might get somewhere)
Failing that…how does one press for a ‘vote of no confidence’ in the Veil – either on this specifically, or, perhaps, on “everything” (as I am unaware of them doing anything ‘good’ beyond, perhaps, our rubbish collection,)…
So what do you want to change?
The pool policy?
The automatic agreement to govt policy to allow the LEP to run us into overdevelopment and then say…. we agree?
The telling us we said we wanted a diamond interchange on the A34 AND THEN telling us we had to have thousands of houses in the Green Belt to pay for it AND THEN telling us that was what we wanted?
The acceptance of a Park and Ride at Lodge Hill and of Oxford filling up Lodge Hill and an HGV Park all in the Green Belt?
The move towards a motorway from Lodge Hill to the M40 instead of accepting that it should run from Milton to the M40 – or that the real problem is overdevelopment so it should be curbed?
The non-admission (at the public inquiry) of ownership of the Radley Kennington Mobile home park which they wanted to reclassify as non-Green Belt, presumably to sell onwards later as Brown Field Land?
I agree the rubbish collections are good.
Going back to GLL, they have been known to invest in various facilities around the country. But if you were GLL would you invest in something when the Vail put up zero money of their own even though they had £615k in their pocket?
I wonder if the pool lobby have looked into the “Community Right to Challenge” provisions of the 2011 Localism Act? These provide opportunities for community groups who think they could do a better job than the Council of running a service to bid to take it on. There is plenty of information about this online – and there are numerous examples of where it has been successful.
Not sure I entirely get your point Nessie? But what I’d like to change is; anything that is affected by The Veil. I am yet to know of a decision they have made that is proper, that makes sense, or is overwhelmingly in the public interest. Perhaps there is…but I’m not aware of it.
I don’t know anything about how successfully a community group could run the pool – my gut feeling says ‘no’, but especially when one would expect them to be working ‘with The Veil’. If they did, you’d hope that such a group would be “pushing against an open door”; as we know however…The Veil keeps its doors locked, chained and the windows blacked out.
If it were me though, the first thing I’d be doing, once the sceptic boil that is The Veil has been lanced and the puss drained, would be to engage with Hinksey (or wherever) to see how their operation is so very successful.
Picking on your last point, Daniel, so impressed with Hinksey Pool are many who swim in Abingdon, that they swim regularly at Hinksey as well. That’s partly because the Hinksey season is twice as long and they start early enough that people can swim on their way to work or after they come home. They don’t interrupt the swim with closures three times a day and the water is warmer etc etc. Abingdon could have most of the benefits of Hinksey, or we could if we had a listening council.
I swam at Hinksey last evening between about 6 and seven o’clock. Air temp 5C, light breeze, water temp 25C. Lovely!. I had to squeeze in a bit to get a lane to swim in. And this is April.
And they are open in their management and staff talk to the people. You can see how they listen to the public by rereading entry 16 above. And the more they talk to us the more we learn about how Hinksey is run. if there is a problem they look for a solution and usually they solve problems.
Oh and I agree with your gut feeling. The fact is that the Vale and South Oxfordshire have negotiated a really good contract with GLL and the operation of the Abbey Meadow pool uses the same staff as at the Tennis and Leisure Centre. But the habit of Vale Officers is to try to ban the pool friends talking to the GLL staff about operational procedures and to be as uncommunicative themselves as possible about details of pool operation. The public are treated unsympathetically, and it seems to most that the public are assumed to know nothing and to contribute nothing. This is a mistake because various swimmers have run swimming sessions, have run swimming clubs, have coached swimmers, have spotted problems at pools and solved them or suggested practical solutions to them. There is a lot of experience out there. And the collective experience of how other pools are run, both in the UK and further afield is huge.
What you say Nessie offers a veneer of hope, and positivity and a glimpse of how things could (should?) be. It almost feels like THAT is the real world, and were banging on the sides of our bizarre Abingdon bubble….
I truly do not know what the answer is for I am merely a disappointed resident taking advantage of the voice this blog allows me.
I would dearly love the people who shout ”us whingers’ down, who vehemently counter our moaning, to read this typifying example and tell us….how everything’s great in Abingdon. This example of “how bad The Veil are” is everywhere. You don’t even need to look. Some of us sense it at evey turn, as an odour permeating every issue wafted over by the Veil. It amazes me how the ‘deniers’ don’t see it…or choose to ignore it.
I don’t really use the pool Nessie, it is to cold for my kids for a start, but if you could use me at all for a cause you might have, I am happy for backstreeter to pass on my email address – if he doesn’t mind.
81% voted for option A to have the pool refurbished, The council are completely ignoring us, with not a penny committed to the pool itself. Then to cap it they want to spend money on the changing rooms, you couldn’t make this up. We also have false information being pedaled in the press about pool numbers, 60 a week is completely made up to try and justify their decision. Around 11k over 100 days, not bad for a pool that has been neglected for decades
Daniel
Your offer at 42 is well received. I am sure the pool friends will be glad to hear from you and am sure Backstreeter will pass on a message. He may have a problem with my email address due to a stupid technicality that I can’t fix for a few weeks, but he will have no problem in reaching me.
What a lovely sunny day. I’m dreaming of a swim in Hinksey’s warm water later on, when the crowds subside.
Pity Abbey Meadow doesn’t open for forty days. …
That’s always surprised me too, Nessie. And the water park…a couple of years now we have had gloriously hot days on the first bank holiday in May…but the “computer says no” attitude from The Veil doesn’t allow the tap to be turned on to the water play area for some weeks later. It’s a shame really…and THAT’s just to turn a tap on!!
Ali – I have to disagree, but appreciate everyone had the opportunity to vote.
There were 81% of 3157 votes, so like I said, a view of a vocal and well organised minority, compared to the population of the town as a whole.
I fail to see how an open air swimming pool will ever bring any real number of people into the area for a sustained period of time. It’s something the locals need to support and visit regularly and this hasn’t happened.
Investment in other amenities may do this, but I doubt something as niche as an open air pool will all year round.
The vote said there were a number that were in favour of prioritising investment in the pool, but how many are using it regularly now? Surely this is the best way to ensure there is investment rather than wait and see if/when it gets a facelift.
Around 10,000 people use the pool every summer, so it is not a minority. I don’t know where this idea of it not being used by many people comes from. 10,000 visits is a lot when it is only open for a few weeks!
That’s 10,000 visits into Abingdon town centre. Many of those people will stop at the businesses in the two centre, keeping them running over the quiet holiday months. Can Abingdon afford to loose these visits to Wallingford or Hinksey?
You can’t say that 81% of 3157 votes is a ‘vocal minority’. Everyone had a chance to vote. Everyone, even kids.
It was not a survey of pool users, it was a consultation of Abingdon residents and had the largest participation of any consultation ever held.
We live in a democracy and votes should count! You can’t just ‘assume’ that everyone who didn’t vote would have voted for the other options that saw the pool closed, that’s just nonsense.
And yes, I did vote to keep the pool. I voted because having been swimming (inadvertently) in the Thames, I know it is really dangerous; it looks nice, but is really cold with a strong current. These pools were established up and down the Thames to stop people swimming in the river and keep them from drowning.
I also voted because there is so little for teenagers to do in the town. What is there, really? The pool is a great safe place where they can meet up with their friends in the summer.
In retrospect, having seen two riverside restaurants still to let in the Old Gaol and the closure of the Upper Reaches, I don’t think a restaurant would have been financially viable on the site! It would have also sat empty.