Work continues at Abbey House, the former HQ of the Vale of the White Horse District Council (VWHDC). Many VWHDC staff have already been moved to work at the South Oxfordshire District Council’s (SODC) HQ near Wallingford, leaving just front line staff to man the downstairs customer desks at Abbey House. The top two floors are to be taken over by staff from Oxfordshire County Council, and part of the ground floor will be used by the Abingdon Citizens Advice Bureau.
The only planning application so far is for increased ventilation. Natural ventilation will no longer be enough as staff numbers increase from 200 to 394 at peak times with Oxfordshire County Council moving staff in from out of town offices.
As well as the extra ventilation there looks to be a need for a new entrance at the side. That could be where the Citizens Advice will go. Presumably they will get their own air.
I had to visit these offices last week and was surprised not to be greeted by a member of Vale staff, nor even a member of OCC, it was an employee of facilities company Capita.
I think we’re quietly being led down the path (without realising) of a Unitary council, where either the Vale & SODC will disappear completely with their current responsibilities being shared among OCC along with the recreation of the old Borough councils, or, as more likely the case, the Vale, in partnership with SODC will end up so big they will consume OCC
Probably about time too – there are too many councillors costing too much money with overlapping responsibilities.
Having outsourced and sold off practically every thing it can, what is the purpose of the Vale council? Even in its one remaining major function (planning) it has notably failed to manage and direct the attentions of developers.
Apologies hijacking this article, has anyone seen the small article Oxford mail June 4th, bottom of Page 3?.
A commercial cinema operator ‘will’ be asked to bankroll £3m revamp of Guildhall.. {Further in}.
“Before the revised plans were revealed the committee voted on whether Press and Public should be excluded from the meeting” Mayor Angela Lawrence {at last they do know Mayer has a name} disgreed Nothing that needs to be secret. Picture House chain ? failing that National Lottery funding, or, running the Hall as a Charity. Last resort Public funding…!
Isn’t a Unitary Council a good thing possible?.
I haven’t needed to go here for a good few years, but recently I wanted some advice on housing/ c tax benefits advice, I couldn’t believe there is not a ‘actual’ person you can speak to face to face with your enquiry. I was told to use the internal phone system there. I’m not happy at all with this system! As a older person I like to speak to explain my point to a person.
It would be great if they get the Picturehouse to back it
Colin, the most interesting thing in your post is the fact that yet again Angela Lawrence, being the only independent councilor, doesn’t have to tow any party line or act with the best interests of a party first, National politics has no place in town councils, it’s our money and property these councilors are dealing with, we are all shareholders and on that basis nothing much should be witheld from us.
For sure Abingdon needs more A.L’s
There are benefits to a unitary system. It would get rid of one tier of local government – the three tier system is very confusing – and a good unitary system should result in more power devolving to the local parish/town council, ie nearer to the people it serves.
I don’t think the District Council layer (The Vale) would be much of a loss as it’s looted Abingdon on a regular basis without any tangible benefit coming back to the Town. Now it’s physically decamped to support the economy of South Oxfordshire …
A good plan would be Oxfordshire council and local councils, the latter doing basic administration and being strongly guided by Neighbourhood Plans when it comes to all expenditures.
I remember when it was 2 tier – OCC and Abingdon Borough or RDC. Always worked OK.
To go back to Colin’s reference to bringing the Guildhall meeting reports out of confidential, to be fair it was Iain Littlejohn, the chairman of the committee, who proposed that the reports should be discussed in open session, I just spoke in support of that
There are some pretty big numbers being banded around on this project, £3.5 million? Presumably the £1 million the TC are putting in is from their/our pot? I would have thought it better used to buy the freehold of the old Abbey House (which apparently is going between £600k to £1 million) then they could spend far less modernising the Guildhall? and if they honestly believe they can find a Cinema operator willing to invest £3 million in a 110 seat cinema, then i’m afraid they’re in for a bit of a surprise. £3 million is a heck of a lot of investment, enough to build a multiplex, and if you could find an operator to invest that here, it would be on a purpose built, stand alone job.
I agree with Steve’s comment above. According to the council, no cinema operators are willing to invest in Abingdon because it is too close to other large cinema venues, so what makes them think now that they would want to throw £3m away on a project that has one small permanent cinema and another part-time one that is only used if no-one else requires the room??! Also, how do you envisage that “a new-look hall will attract an extra 100,000 visitors to Abingdon and generate some £700,000 a year.”. So 273 NON Abingdonians a DAY are going to be flocking here in their droves, JUST to go to the Guildhall?? They won’t all be able to FIT in the cinema, IF that many came every single day of the year, and once they are turned away from the door because it is “full”, do you really think that they will return again the next day? Do us all a favour, forget this folly now, put the money towards a PROPER cinema, preferably on the poundland site, (TELL Scottish Widows that they are NOT fulfilling their obligations to the town and they will be forced out if they refuse to co-operate!), and everytime the cinema empties, ALL of that footfall will be right in the precinct, not tucked away by the Guildhall and heading to the carpark!
Gentlemen – the council has never said that it expects a cinema operator to contribute £3m to the scheme (the reporter misquoted me).
The council will be approaching cinema operators to explore whether they would be interested in making a capital investment in the scheme which is not an uncommon model.
The figure of 100,000 is the number of visitors we expect to get to the entire complex following the investment. This is not an unrealistic figure, remembering that in addition to the cinema we have room rentals, weddings/celebrations, live events and visits to the cafe/bar to consider. The figure of £700k is again slightly underexplained in the herald article. It comes from the spend the average visitor makes to the town centre which is about £7 (source hidden britain).
The town council has not said that a cinema operator would not be interested in abingdon. The town council has said that a multiplex cinema operator would not be interested in abingdon due to proximity to kasam and didcot. There are many operators including some large chains who operate smaller cinemas (which are perfectly ‘proper’) the herald quote picturehouse who operate the phoenix and many others as an example.
iain, I appreciate you’re getting a hard time of it lately and perhaps its time that some of your colleagues took some of the flack for a change? But you must understand the public’s frustration over this subject, especially when the last meeting was deliberately held behind closed doors !
Of course we understand the TC’s dilemma in taking over a loss making entity and we are appreciative of your efforts in trying to minimise the loss, but it may just be that the old saying about making a silk purse from a sows ear is very appropriate here?
The Phoenix would be perect for Abingdon!!
Perfect for who?? Not the majoirity of people who want to see the latest blockbuster ON the day that it is released!
yes, but Guido you can go to cowley or didcot to watch those
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11256311.Pub_company_puts_in_bid_for_historic_abbey_building/?ref=mr
looks like the old building could become a pub/restaurant
with the right vision, that part of town could be a little “cultural” quarter 🙂
Steve – the last meeting was not held behind closed doors. All meetings of the guildhall committee are open to the public annd a number of members of the public do attend on ocassions. About half a dozen chose to come on tuesday.
Rolf, that is exactly the attitude that has ruined this once lovey town! The “Let them eat cake” attitude that says “We are more cultured than the rest of the town, we want our minority opera/theatre/arty cinema, and you the great unwashed can go elsewhere”! Start thinking for the MAJORITY rather than the minority! Then and ONLY then will this town get back on the right footing, and businesses will thrive instead of failing! Why do you think one of the busiest shops is Poundland? Abingdon has become pretentious and trying to be something it isn’t, and as soon as people making the decisions realise that and go back to catering for the masses, rather than the elite, the better.
“Apologies hijacking this article, has anyone seen the small article Oxford mail June 4th, bottom of Page 3?.
A commercial cinema operator ‘will’ be asked to bankroll £3m revamp of Guildhall.. {Further in}.
“Before the revised plans were revealed the committee voted on whether Press and Public should be excluded from the meeting” Mayor Angela Lawrence {at last they do know Mayer has a name} disgreed Nothing that needs to be secret. Picture House chain ? failing that National Lottery funding, or, running the Hall as a Charity. Last resort Public funding…!”
iain, i’m confused?
Guido, your answer is to have a multiplex cinema in the centre of an historic market town???
This MAJORITY to talk about is based on which research exactly?
What are you confused about steve? A member requested the item be discussed in private. This was debated and voted upon (in public) and the meeting decided that the discussion should take place in public which it did (see earlier posts)
I know some other posters get iritated when these debates become too protracted so i suggest you contact me directly if you’re still unclear
What I fail to understand is why sufficient people would go to the mico-cinema to make back its cost, given we already have a large number of cinemas in the area, including oxford.
If you are that desperate, why not use the Unicorn theater for film nights? Its stands unused for most of the time. All the seating it there, it would not cost much to put a screen in to drop down a couple of times a week to keep the cinema buffs happy. Or would that not meet the criteria of being “seen to do something?”
The council would do better running what they have got properly and commercially before eating up all the reserves with a huge gamble on more buildings. The comedy nights are a start, but that is just one night a month. There needs to be an event 2 or 3 times a week to make the thing pay.
Also on the meeting rooms. I run a business and have found it impossible to quickly find out if they are available. People in business dont have time to muck about waiting on hold while someone toddles down the corridor to see so-and-so, who might know, or might not, so I don’t bother trying any more. Nice rooms, but you cant spend 45 minutes each time booking them!
Iain, you are naive beyond belief ! there are 20 councilors on the TC, yet you are the only one who consistently puts his (or her) head above the parapet, I’ve tried in an earlier post to suggest your colleagues should be more vocal on this hot potato subject, but they haven’t, such is the support among them for your endeavors. but remember this, at next years election it wont be the TC that will be remembered for this fiasco, it will be you !
Rolf, YES!!! We are not a small “historic market town” anymore. It is a sprawling town of at least 33,000 people, which doesn’t now have a cattle market for which it used to be called a market town after. 33,000 people don’t ALL want to watch art-house film noirs…(Granted some will), but let’s get the proper leisure facilities in place which will cater for the majority, and THEN and only then, start thinking about an extra art-house cinema? A multiplex cinema at one end of the precinct, (hardly an historic feature, unless you class a 1960’s monstrosity revamped/tarted up at min expense to the landlord, a “feature” of our historic town?), would draw people back into the town from all the surrounding villages, and also draw the youngsters in (they are the ones with disposable incomes), and those same people WILL browse/use the shops both while they are arriving and leaving the cinema. Maybe a bowling alley as well, then sort the traffic situation out and Abingdon could be fantastic again!
The Guildhall fiasco will draw in 110 people at a time, it WON’T attract people from outside the town, and once people have been turned away once or twice, either because the cinema is full, or because it is being used for something else, they won’t bother coming again! Also those that do come will park in Waitrose or the Abbey car parks, and won’t even go near the town, so “The Town” won’t benefit at all from this.
Steve King is right, Iain, you will be remembered for this…but for all the wrong reasons.
The actual article.
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/archive/2014/06/04/11254005.Cinema_operator_wanted_to_help_fund_Guildhall_s_revamp_scheme/
I think any existing cinema operator would agree that the site is not commercially viable as the plans stand. The TC should never have taken on the Guildhall, but now the town is stuck with it some real creativity is required … don’t hold your breath …
Meanwhile, it’s safe to assume that the Guildhall is hemorrhaging the thick end of £12.5K a month … gone forever.
While any cinema operators are in town it might be an idea to walk them down Bury Street to see whether they’d be interested in a multiplex there.
Guido, you are missing the point – the Phoenix in Jericho still plays the mainstream movies, not just Art House Film Noir stuff, so in that sense it caters to the “majority”, and satisfies the needs of different target markets,
BUT Rolf, I think it is you missing the point….The Phoenix is a small cinema, Oxford has got TWO main cinema’s at the moment (with another one planned!). This Guildhall is a subsidiary sized cinema without a bigger one to back it up? The point i am trying to make is that i’m all for a small extra cinema, IF you have one that is large enough to accomodate the needs of 33,000 people, plus the outlying villages.
Guido – it is as easy for Abingdon people (at least those with cars – which in this day and age is actually the vast majority) to get to the Vue as it is for most Oxford people – and we have the additional option of Didcot Cineworld. Those without cars can easily get to the Odeons which also show all the latest blockbusters. So we do have the bigger ones to back up the small one – and that probably also explains why no multiplex operator wants to come to Abingdon!
Also, why is it that the anti-Guildhall cinema brigade feel the need to hi-jack posts on here about completely different topics, repeating the same old arguments and forcing Iain to repeat the rebuttals over and over again. He has offered you the opportunity for face to face meetings – why not use them – I don’t think constant repetition here is winning you any more supporters. I didn’t see any of you at the public meeting on Tuesday – it was fairly widely known that it was on but I was the only person without a vested interest who went along. I am assuming that there will be some more public consultation when the plans have been developed a bit further – maybe that is the time and place to resume your campaign, rather than here?
well said
I think that the more people hear about the guildhall, the more informed their opinions will be. It’s great that some people are totally familiar with the pros of the project, and some equally familiar with the cons. Great. But there are massive swaithes of people who are not – myself included. The more often i hear about it, the better, as far as I am concerned. I don’t mind the same concerns being raised; and I think the more often they are confronted then that is a good thing. If nothing else it makes me realise that thingz in this town are not as clear cut as one might seem and i welcome greater minds than mine putting the pressure on and asking that others justify their decisions. But perhaps that’s inconvenient.
Personally, i can indeed get in my car, drive to the wide and empty roads of Didcot, spend my disposable income in one of their cafes or restaursnts, go see a film with the kids, come out and while away the remainder of my free parking time spending even more money in their local shops.
I’d rather do all that in Abingdon…
I think it is a good thing that others question why WE can’t have that here, and the more often they do, the better.
Face to face discussions are great…but how do we get to hear those discussions (if not on sites like this)?
Hester. Exactly the attitude I said about earlier…the “let them eat cake!”attitude…”Pull up the draw-bridge, i’m alright Jack!”. Yes I can get in my car. (Although not everyone in this day and age can afford a car). Teenagers who would like to get off the streets rather than hang around the precinct, can’t just drive to Oxford or Didcot! My son hasn’t got a car.
I myself, if I wanted to go to the cinema and make an evening of it, with a couple of drinks afterwards, would need to walk a mile (YES a MILE!!) to the nearest bus stop, (and yes I do live IN Abingdon itself), catch a bus to Oxford, then afterwards, HOPE that I haven’t missed the last bus back otherwise it will cost me a fortune to get a taxi, and then walk the mile back to my house. All that after putting my hard earned pounds into the tills of traders (Cinemas/shops/pubs) and businesses (Bus company) of Oxford! Where is the sense? Abingdon is big enough to have its own leisure facilities…lets stop funding everyone elses!
a mile??? that’s about a fifteen minute walk, no big deal, and there’s a late bus back.
Guido and Daniel – thanks – excellent arguments for having a cinema in the Guildhall for those who prefer, for whatever reason not to go to the local multiplexes.
Providing not more than 110 of the 33,000 want to go at one time Hester. I know, lets take it in turns? Your turn is in 2034. Hope you enjoy your evening, put it in your diary, i’d hate for you to miss it and have to wait another 20 years for your turn to come round again?